What's Next

Navigating Logistics After a Sudden Loss...and What Comes Next

There are resources and books for almost every situation in life but almost nothing when it comes to navigating the death of a loved one. People are typically left to figure out logistics of funerals, finances, and mental health support on their own after a loss. In today’s episode, host Liz Smith is joined in conversation with Jason Dyke, President and Founder of Carson’s Village, a nonprofit organization that provides free and comprehensive support and care to families who have experienced sudden loss.  

 

Jason founded Carson’s Village after the tragic loss of his eleven year old son Carson to suicide. He realized in the days after losing Carson that he had a strong support system to help his family navigate the next steps, but that not everybody has that type of strong support system in their lives. When families experience a sudden loss, they are faced with decisions and financial implications that many are unprepared to undertake, especially without assistance. This inspired Jason to create an organization that would help families and individuals through the process, assisting with finding the right funeral home, providing a fundraising page, and continuing to help them to grieve and process their emotions through support groups. Today, Carson’s Village has helped thousands of families across the United States and continues to be the only organization of its kind in the country. 

 

Tune into this week’s episode of What’s Next to learn more about Jason’s story, the type of services provided by Carson’s Village, and the steps to navigating the logistics of sudden loss including tips on managing grief. 

 

Quotes

• “We saw him, and then I asked the nurse what to do next. And they said we'll call a funeral home and they'll walk you through the process and that was it. And I walked out that night, I didn't know what to do or where to go.” (9:46-10:05 | Jason)

• “Everybody grieves in a different way. And so you’ve got to be sensitive to that. And all four of us went through the grieving process in a much different way. And so it's really important because people think that if you're not grieving like I am, you're not grieving. And that can cause a lot of stress and additional heartache in the house.” (20:08-20:30 | Jason)

• “If you look at major life events like birth, cancer, or a wedding, there's all kinds of books about what to do and checklists for every step. everything is there, except for death..” (38:28-38:43 | Jason)

• “The first thing we do is make sure that parents are taking care of themselves because parents can't help children if they can't help themselves. It's kind of like when the oxygen mask drops in the plane, you need to put it on first and then you can help your kids. And that's what you need to be doing when you're going through this. ” (45:25-45:39 | Jason)

 

Links:

 

Carson's Village: https://carsonsvillage.org/contact-us/

Orbisculate: https://www.orbisculate.com/

For all of Liz Smith’s resources give her a like on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/lizsmithlaw 

 

 

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

Launching Our Parents at the End of Their Lives (And Other Thoughts About Navigating the End and Healing)

People often don’t realize how large of a stressor it is to help their parents transition at the end of their lives. There is a lot of community support and understanding when caring for children at the beginning of their lives, but not as many support structures for grown children caring for their dying parents. In today’s episode, host Liz Smith is joined in conversation with Karen Salama McCain, the Irish-Egyptian founder of GoHively, which helps implement interventions in healthcare settings, schools, and behavioral health organizations that improve communication and reduce stress. 

 

Karen’s parents always planned for her to be their primary caregiver at the end of their lives, but Karen had no idea just how difficult this would actually be in practice. When she became a full-time caregiver for her father, she started to experience severe stress which she soon realized was separation anxiety. She struggled with the idea of letting her father go and worried that she was making the wrong choices and causing harm to her father more than she was helping him. She learned that in order to properly care for her father, she needed to regulate her own emotions and care for her own body first. When she was able to remain calm and regulate her fight or flight response, Karen was able to make more clear decisions and improve communication with her father’s doctors and her family members. 

 

Tune into this week’s episode of What’s Next to learn more about end of life separation anxiety, how to take care of yourself so that you can be a more effective caregiver, and how to navigate difficult conversations with family members about end of life care. 

 

Quotes

• “The following 10 days leading up to his death brought a roller coaster of emotions and experiences. What I didn't realize until that 10 day journey was that separation anxiety would be a thing at the end of life too.” (5:48-6:06 | Karen)

• “The nurses were gently telling me things like, ‘If you take away the morphine, you're going to take away his comfort. He is near the end.’ This was the key moment where my anxiety about letting him go could have messed with his comfortable and peaceful transition.” (7:16-7:31 | Karen)

• “Somewhere in those sleep deprived couple of days, I remember what I learned when I dropped my son off at daycare. The more comfortable I was in letting him go, the easier it would be for him.” (8:18-8:31 | Karen)

• “If we talk openly about caring for our parents in their final days, we can help our friends and children navigate this painful inevitability.” (9:09-9:17 | Karen)

• “Stress can really impact your body in a big way or especially stressors where you feel like you can't do something to change the outcome. Those are the kinds of stressors that can really live in your body.” (13:58-14:13 | Karen)

• “I made this agreement, and I continue to have a choice about making a decision, am I going to be the caregiver? Or are we going to find an alternate solution? There's always a possibility for some other solution.” (21:33-21:48 | Karen)

 

Links:

 

Blog article: https://wisdomwell.modernelderacademy.com/launching-my-father-at-the-end-of-his-life

Karen Salama McCain LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/karen-salama-mccain/

Website: https://www.salamamccain.com/

Bessel van der Kolk's book, The Body Keeps the Score: https://www.besselvanderkolk.com/resources/the-body-keeps-the-score

Training by Karen Salama McCain and Julie Krohner "The New Brain Science that Makes Old School Caregiving Easier on Everyone" 30 min. Strategies for coping with stressful or complicated family dynamics in caregiving. https://bit.ly/3PQmaTI

Family Meeting to Plan for Caregiving

- https://atlasofcaregiving.com/

- https://www.caregiver.org/resource/holding-family-meeting/

Karen referenced techniques created by:

Howard Stevenson (Calculate Locate Communicate) https://www.gse.upenn.edu/news/recasting-moment-professor-howard-stevenson-creating-change-through-racial-literacy

Bruce Perry (Regulate Relate Reason) https://www.bdperry.com/

Modern Elder Academy: https://www.modernelderacademy.com/

Chip Conley: https://chipconley.com/

The Hoffman Process: https://www.hoffmaninstitute.org/

Liz’s blog re: her experience at Hoffman: https://ejsblog.com/2021/11/13/hoffman-when-youre-serious-about-change/

 

For all of Liz Smith’s resources give her a like on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/lizsmithlaw 

 

 

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

What’s up With the Markets? Switching From Saving to Preserving in Retirement, Inflation, and Working With a Financial Advisor

There are many types of investments and accounts to choose from, and understanding the market and how to create a financial portfolio can be difficult to do on your own. In today’s episode, host Liz Smith is joined in conversation with Christine Eisenhower, Financial Advisor and Co-Owner at Blue Anchor Wealth Advisors, to discuss how a financial advisor can help you navigate saving for retirement. 

 

Christine became a certified financial advisor after spending many years as a corporate CPA. As an advisor, she is able to work one-on-one with clients and develop more of a personal relationship with them. Having a personal relationship is vital to both understanding and helping clients achieve their retirement goals. As an advisor, Christine helps her clients with all aspects of money management including: saving for retirement, understanding the impacts of inflation, learning about different options available for withdrawing or transferring funds, and making changes to your portfolio. 

 

Tune into this week’s episode of What’s Next to learn more about how a financial advisor can help you navigate the market, save for retirement, and make necessary changes to your financial portfolio.

 

Quotes

• “As a Certified Financial Planner, my job is to have a holistic approach to financial planning and advice.” (14:04-14:11)

• “When you've spent seven years working and saving and suddenly, you’re just spending in what you would consider a frivolous manner, that's not an easy adjustment to make. But I am a cheerleader for spending and enjoying your money.” (21:47-22:02)

• “It is recommended that you open up an IRA custodian, it could be Charles Schwab, it could be any custodian. And you transfer the assets from those old retirement accounts into your IRA, and you get them all in the same place so you've got a bucket of money that's your retirement money.” (26:08-26:26)

• “Women have proven themselves to be better investors than men. And I think that, in my experience, that's because women are maybe a little bit more open to having a tribe around them of receiving that input of knowing that we can't really do it all. And that input of having an expertise, helps them be open to education, and long-term planning. Not to say that men aren’t. Men are very good investors, but the approach that men and women take to investing is very different.” (37:27-38:11)

• “Give yourself some grace, especially if you're going through something new.” (47:31-47:35)

 

Links:

 

Connect with Christine Eisenhower:

Website: https://blueanchorwealth.com/

For all of Liz Smith’s resources give her a like on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/lizsmithlaw 

 

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

Navigating Care in Alaska with a Care Coordinator Heidi Young

Even though it is a fact of life that as we grow older, we will have more healthcare needs, people often don’t plan enough ahead for health emergencies. In today’s episode, host Liz Smith is joined in conversation with Heidi Young, Owner at Island Care Services, LLC, to discuss navigating long-term care services in Alaska. 

 

According to Heidi, care coordinators help families and individuals navigate through the necessary steps necessary for getting approved for long-term care services such as Medicaid. Their main objective is to ensure that people’s needs are met on a long-term basis. Having the assistance of a care coordinator is crucial, especially because most people don’t have a plan in place prior to experiencing a life changing health event. Heidi walks through the steps needed to apply for Medicaid’s long term care program and explains each piece of the process. 

 

Tune into this week’s episode of What’s Next to learn more about the role of a care coordinator, the importance of having a plan for your future, and how to choose long-term care resources that are best for you and your loved ones. 

Quotes

• “I really consider myself a community resource. I want everybody at my agency to feel the same way. When I approach my later years, I want to know every single option that's out there. So what I try to provide for families here are all the options you have for care and so you can make the most informed decision.” (1:00-1:24)

• “What is your plan to take care of family members if something catastrophic were to happen tomorrow?” (2:41-2:47)

• “Our biggest passion is to keep people in their home communities. I hate the idea of going into a village and having to tell somebody that was born in a village and has lived there their whole life that now they have to move to Anchorage to get the level of care services that they need.” (8:36-8:50)

• “Being a care coordinator is not something you do because you're going to be a millionaire, you do it because you're helping people in your community get the services that they need and wouldn't be able to access if it weren't for care coordinators.” (18:41-18:52)

 

Links:

 

Island Care Services: https://islandcareservicesllc.com/

Find your Aging and Disability Resource Center (ADRC) here: https://dhss.alaska.gov/dsds/pages/adrc/default.aspx

Southeast Alaska ADRC is SAIL: https://www.sailinc.org/

Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services (CMS): https://www.cms.gov/

CMS Home & Community Based Services: https://www.medicaid.gov/medicaid/home-community-based-services/index.html

Medicaid in Alaska: https://dhss.alaska.gov/dpa/Pages/medicaid/default.aspx

For all of Liz Smith’s resources give her a like on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/lizsmithlaw 

 

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

Cyber Security: Protecting Your Digital Identity & Legacy

In today’s digital world, protecting your online identity is just as important as protecting your real identity. As hackers continue to advance their tactics, it is becoming increasingly crucial that you learn how to stay ahead. In today’s episode, host Liz Smith is joined in conversation with Jeremy Hansen, Partner & CEO at Hansen Gress to discuss ways you can continue to protect your legacy.

 

According to Jeremy, the relationship between cybersecurity and estate planning is synonymous. As things continue to be digitized, more and more of our personal information is being stored somewhere on the internet, making us vulnerable to cybersecurity attacks. While it may seem complex, Jeremy explains that there are many accessible tools you can use to prevent yourself from falling victim to online crimes and the best way to protect yourself and your family is to get educated and spread the word. 

 

Tune into this week’s episode of What’s Next to learn more about the importance of separating your personal and work identities, and implementing things such as two-factor authentication and password management systems so you can better educate and protect your identity.  

Quotes

• “I've been contemplating the relationship between cybersecurity and estate planning and I quickly came to realize that protecting our identity is one of the first decisions that we need to make in the estate planning process.” (03:43-04:01)

• “Our digital and regular day-to-day identities are tied together very intimately and you deserve to protect that.” (04:14-04:27)

• “The easy things that we can do to make a dramatic difference in protecting our identity are educating ourselves, getting organized, and learning how to manage it.” (11:18-11:32)

• “What LastPass allows you to do is use more complex passwords without you having to remember them.” (15:54-16:03)

• “When an attacker is able to collect information about you like your birthday or what your habits are, it just opens the door for them to exploit your information” (18:58-19:11)

• “Keep your work identities and your personal identities separated.” (39:19-39:23)

Links:

Website: https://www.hansengress.com/

Phishing Quiz: https://phishingquiz.withgoogle.com/

Password manager: https://www.lastpass.com/

Password manager: https://www.dashlane.com/

Facebook Legacy Contact - What will happen to my Facebook if I pass away?

https://www.facebook.com/help/103897939701143

What happens to social media accounts when someone dies?

https://www.militaryspouse.com/sponsored/what-happens-to-social-media-when-someone-dies/#:~:text=If%20you%20would%20like%20an,Additional%20 items%20 may%20be%20requested.

Complex Password Guide from XKCD : https://xkcd.com/936/

GDPR:  https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/guide-to-data-protection/guide-to-the-general-data-protection-regulation-gdpr/individual-rights/right-to-erasure/

What is “Do Not Track”

Do Not Track legislation protects users’ right to choose whether or not they want to be tracked by third-party websites. It is often called the online version of "Do Not Call" (Wikipedia).

 

For all of Liz Smith’s resources give her a like on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/lizsmithlaw 

 

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

The Whale Whisperer Who Grew Up On Shelter Island

For as long as she could remember, Jayleen Bydlon had always wanted to work on boats. Growing up on a remote island, Jayleen worked side by side with her father mastering the trade of whale watching. After graduating college, she took a risk to pursue her passion. Today, Jayleen is the proud owner of Jayleen’s Alaska where she shows an intimate perspective of Alaska by providing a personalized whale-watching experience.

 

While the growth of her business started slow, Jayleen was always determined to give whale-watching a good reputation. Combining what she had learned from her parents with an innovative approach, Jayleen was able to grow and scale her business in just a few years. While operating a business can sometimes be stressful, Jayleen explains that your passion is always enough to overcome any challenges. 

 

Tune into this week’s episode of What’s Next to learn more about the realities of remote living and how Jayleen utilized her skills to build a business that follows her passion. 

 

Quotes

• "When starting a business, it'll take three to five years to really get on your feet, get a good client base, and to get well-known. (20:36-20:43)

• “I always had in the back of my mind that I wanted to do something on boats. So when I graduated college, I just really wanted to start a whale-watching business and to get back into it. And so that's what I did. I bought a boat, went into major debt at 22, and started the business in October of 2015.” (26:24-26:54)

• “When you broke down my business plan, it was always going to be wonderful customer service. We were going to treat people the way we wanted to be treated, and we're gonna go watch whales.” (27:37-27:52)

• “Our client base is really interested in a tech-based approach. To make the reservation and to learn about you, they don't necessarily want to talk to you face to face, over the phone, or even over email. They just want to make the reservation online and continue planning the rest of their vacation.” (32:05-32:29)

• “You can be busy and you can feel stressed, but if you still wake up the next day and still feel motivated and ready to go after a bad day, then you're passionate about your business.” (35:10-35:25)

 

Links:

Connect with Jayleen Bydlon

Website: https://jayleensalaska.com/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/jayleensalaska

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jayleens_alaska/

Tripadvisor Review: https://www.tripadvisor.com/Attraction_Review-g31020-d9885730-Reviews-Jayleen_s_Alaska-Juneau_Alaska.html

For all of Liz Smith’s resources give her a like on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/lizsmithlaw 

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

The Third Option: Human Body Composting

Preparing for your funeral plays an integral part in estate planning. For a long time, people have had two options: be buried or be cremated. However, as the world continues to move in favor of sustainability, a new option has been born - human body composting. In today’s episode, host Liz Smith sits down with Anna Swenson, Outreach Manager of Recompose to discuss the process of human body composting and its environmental benefits. 

 

According to Anna, many people misunderstand the environmental effects of cremation. While the body is not going to pollute the ground, Anna explains that cremation releases fumes into the air that is just as toxic as being buried. To shift the death-care paradigm, Recompose offers a sustainable and meaningful option for funeral services. Their process of human body composting not only reduces carbon emissions and improves the health of nature, but also allows the body to naturally return to Earth. 

 

Tune into this week’s episode of What’s Next to learn more about the environmental impacts of cremation and burials, the process of human body composting, and how choosing this option could be meaningful to you and the environment.  

 

Quotes

• “Not a lot of folks know that the environmental impact of flame based cremation is about the same as burial.” (01:56-02:04)

• “It's the microbes that occur naturally in our own bodies that power the transformation into soil. So once we place the body and the plant material in the vessel, we close it and then the process of transforming into soil takes between six and eight weeks total.” (07:50-08:07)

• “We do test the soil for 10 different factors that are required by the state. And that is how we know when it's safe to go back to the family or back into the environment.” (11:11-11:24)

• “For each body that undergoes human composting, it creates one cubic yard of soil which is enough to fill up about a pickup truck bed.” (21:12-21:21)

• “Grief is never predictable and death is very often messy. However you feel about it is the correct way to feel.” (36:33-36:40) 

• “If you want to be composted and your family doesn't understand it and they say you should be buried in the Family Plot, but you don't want to you, don't have to.” (36:53-37:01) 

 

Links:

https://recompose.life/

 

TED talk: https://www.ted.com/talks/katrina_spade_when_i_die_recompose_me#t-1333

 

People article about Amigo Bob: https://people.com/human-interest/human-composting-a-new-end-of-life-choice-turns-bodies-into-soil/

 

Article about Amigo Bob: https://www.theunion.com/news/organic-farming-pioneer-amigo-bob-cantisano-dies/

 

For all of Liz Smith’s resources give her a like on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/lizsmithlaw 

 

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

Learning About the State of Alaska‘s Long Term Care Ombudsman

“We all want a quality of life and care for seniors,” says Stephanie Wheeler, Alaska’s long-term care ombudsman. In her role, Stephanie is responsible for ensuring that senior residents across the state receive top-of-the-line care. Today, Stephanie is widely recognized for her advocacy work and commitment to educating the community about the importance of eldercare. 

As an ombudsman, Stephanie’s job is to represent the wishes and needs of residents. To best serve her clients, Stephanie focuses on empowering people through education. Whether it be seniors, the public, or legislators, everyone must be working towards improving the quality of life in long-term care facilities. Just because nursing home residents need extra help, does not mean they are not entitled to their rights. Stephanie explains that seniors have the same rights to privacy, confidentiality, and respect as anyone else. Whether it’s skilled nursing or assisted living, Stephanie and her staff are on a mission to provide care that meets the needs of every resident. 

Tune into this week’s episode of What’s Next for a conversation with Stephanie Wheeler to learn more about elder rights, what an ombudsman is, and how the role of an ombudsman is changing the quality of care and life for senior citizens all over the country. 

 

Quotes

• “Ombudsman means representative of the people. So as a long-term care ombudsman, we focus on the needs of residents in a long-term care facility.” (02:26-02:43)

• “We really want to make sure that our volunteers have the heart for listening, talking, and enjoying the company of elders, but are also able to look at things with a critical eye.” (09:49-10:13)

• “We all want a quality of life and care for seniors in their homes.” (10:24-10:27)

• “The right to dignity and respect should not disappear because you're living in a skilled nursing facility or an assisted living home.”(15:29-15:45)

• “97% of our complaints were resolved to the satisfaction of the resident and that's the outcome we're always striving for.” (21:09-21:19)

• “There is a state long-term care ombudsman in every state including Puerto Rico and Washington, DC.” (34:58-35:08)

• “One of the things that I think about all the time is how tough the transition has to be for seniors who are moving into an assisted living home or a skilled nursing facility.” (37:21-37:35)

• “Private pay is definitely costly, but there are funding sources out there to help with assisted living and skilled nursing facility expenses.”(45:36-45:44)

 

Links:

Connect with Stephanie Wheeler:

State of Alaska – Long Term Care Ombudsman:  www.akoltco.org 

Phone Number: 907-334-4480

National Association of Long Term Care Ombudsman: www.nasop.org 

National Consumer Voice: https://theconsumervoice.org 

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/AKOLTCO/ 

 

For all of Liz Smith’s resources give her a like on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/lizsmithlaw 

Hospice and Home Care Services in Juneau, Alaska

Jennifer Carson has been with Catholic Community Service (CCS) for nine years and currently serves as the Director of Hospice and Home Care of Juneau. Jennifer is a team-focused leader who draws upon the unique abilities of her staff to build a cohesive team. She stays informed on state and national trends and works collaboratively with others. Jennifer has over 10 years of experience with healthcare and social service compliance, and over 15 years of experience providing direct services to adults with chronic and severe mental illness. Today, Jennifer uses her background to help spread awareness about the accessible end-of-life resources in southeast Alaska.

For patients to be approved for hospice care, they must have a terminal disease and a life expectancy of six months or less. Jennifer explains that before entering hospice, it is important to have an established plan of care. Not only will an established plan make it easier on the patient, but on the family and hospice staff too. Whether it's home care or hospice, Jennifer and her staff strive to provide comfortable and reliable care to every patient. 

Tune into this week’s episode of the What’s Next podcast to learn more about what the Hospice and Home Care of Juneau provide, the difference between hospice and home care, and the importance of establishing a relationship with your caregivers so you can create a comfortable end-of-life experience for you and your loved ones. 

 

Quotes

• “The goal of home health is to have somebody who's had an illness or injury get back to a functioning level and hopefully back to where they were before.” (03:43-03:54)

• “One of the misconceptions about hospice is if you haven’t passed in six months, you're going to get kicked out.” (05:29-05:35)

• “Sometimes your disease process goes quicker than what you thought and getting everything finalized can take quite a while. So, I think having everything in order certainly makes things so much easier.” (18:08-18:25)

• “Hospice is all about helping you follow through with your plans for your care.” (18:40-18:45)

• “What is unique about us here in Juneau is anything that's not covered by your insurance, you will never receive a bill for.” (31:26-31:35)

 

Links:

Website | https://www.ccsak.org/hospice--home-care-of-juneau.html 

Website | https://www.ccsak.org/ 

Phone | (907) 463-6100

 

For all of Liz Smith’s resources give her a like on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/lizsmithlaw 

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

Working With a Professional Personal Representative or Trustee

Brenda Tudor, Trust Officer at Peak Trust Company, has worked in the financial services industry for over 30 years, serving 17 of those years as a trust officer. Brenda’s extensive experience has allowed her to play an integral part in creating personal estate planning strategies for many clients. Brenda is passionate about helping both the trustee and their beneficiaries satisfy their needs. Brenda currently serves on the board of the Anchorage Estate Planning Council and holds a position as the Vice Chair of Anchorage Senior Activity Center Endowment Trust Board of Trustees. 

When you are putting together an estate plan, will, or trust, one of the most important decisions is to pick who you want to be the personal representative. According to Brenda, there are many reasons why it may be best to leave this role to a third party. Brenda and her colleagues at Peak Trust are well educated and prepared to handle any aspect of the trust process. Their main goal is to create a good standing relationship with everyone involved, something family members are often not equipped to do. Whether it be their spouse, children, grandchildren, or even a charitable organization, Brenda explains that a trust can be the perfect vehicle for people to leave behind their legacy. 

Tune into this week’s episode of the What’s Next podcast to learn more about the types of trusts, the role of a trust officer, and how you can use a trust to help your loved ones even after you’ve passed on. 

 

Quotes:

• “Understanding our client’s intent when they're drafting documents is important to us because that knowledge can't be obtained once they've passed.” (11:03-11:13)

• “We don't like to say no, as long as it falls within the perimeter of the trust document. We like to work with the beneficiaries to make sure that they can gain a good education and can be successful out in society once they've graduated.’ (18:12-18:24)

• “Something I take pride in is getting to know my beneficiaries to be able to help them in the best manner I can, and serve them the best way that I can under the parameters of the document.” (21:31-21:40)

• “Some beneficiaries do not understand the fact that it's not their money, it's money that is put there for their benefit.” (33:44-33:51)

• “There's a lot of thought that goes into putting a trust together, and a lot of people don't fully understand how trusts can be used as a great estate vehicle for their family members down the road.” (36:53-37:05)

 

Links:

https://www.peaktrust.com/

 

For all of Liz Smith’s resources give her a like on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/lizsmithlaw 

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm